Ariel: Corinne goes home and is devastated. I got teary. Finland. Raven and Nick have an important date. She tells Nick she loves him and that she’s never had an orgasm.
Matthew: Nick’s Bachelorette ex, Andi, shows up to give him sex advice. Nick dumps a teary Corinne. Raven opens up to Nick about love and also orgasms. Nick wears a turtleneck.
Week 9! Discuss!
Ariel: I watched this week with my husband, Jeremy. He likes Nick. Isn’t that weird? I mean, I kind of like Nick too, actually. But it was a journey. Jeremy just showed up out of the blue and was like, “I like this guy.”
Matthew: And yet you crazy kids make your marriage work anyway.
This is funny because as the season has gone on, I’ve liked Nick LESS. I’m glad the most we all disagree is on The Bachelor, of all things. Someone out there has been reading Bad Books Good Times for years, waiting for us to disagree about a book, and then we start doing The Bachelor and BAM.
Ariel: The cracks in our relationship are really showing.
Ariel: Omg I wrote a couple notes on Andi being there, but then forgot about her as soon as Corinne was dumped!
Matthew: Haha, I figured. I was bracing myself for a long talk about Corinne getting the boot.
What should we talk about first? Andi and Nick’s surprisingly ok talk, or how this episode was inexplicably but blissfully only one hour long like a gift from the heavens above?
Ariel: Oh let’s first talk about how short it was! I couldn’t believe my eyes! I got so much of my evening back.
Matthew: Right?! Why isn’t it always this way? I got to kick my friends out of my apartment early and spend the rest of the night catching up on reading! It was fucking delightful! Although next week is THREE hours. Lord give me strength.
First they announce Rachel as the next Bachelorette at least a month before she leaves The Bachelor itself, then throw one-hour and three-hour episodes at us… what the hell are they doing over there?
Ariel: I really struggled last night to convince Jeremy to watch with me, so there is no way he will support me for 3 hours. He won’t even watch shows he really likes with me that long!
Are we recapping the reunion show? How much of it do you think will be old footage of the Taylor/Corinne fight we are all sick of seeing.
Matthew: Right? Corinne’s sent home and I still can’t even get one fucking Corinne-free week from this show.
Women Tell All is gonna be The Corinne Show. I’m 0% interested in even MORE conversation about whether people like her or not and even MORE bickering between her and Taylor (who despite being a mental health counselor was somehow the #2 immature bully behind Corinne). The only thing I’m mildly curious about is if they give it one more go at the “one of these contestants met Nick at a wedding before and THEY HAD THE SEX ISN’T THAT DRAMATIC” stuff which everyone on the show stopped giving a shit about by like week 2.
Speaking of not that dramatic, what’d you think of Andi’s talk with Nick? Since you actually saw their season and saw what went down between them, I’m curious what you thought of it. Because I actually thought it was really amicable, good advice?
Ariel: I loved the transformation Nick underwent as the conversation progressed.
At first, my notes were all like, “OH SHIT NICK LOOKS PISSED!” And his “To what do I owe this pleasure” was just so full of contempt. But then they wound up having what seemed like a very pleasant chat, and I think they both were genuinely apologising.
But it was SO WEIRD how they kept cutting to the Final Four just waiting outside in the cold for the freaking rose ceremony.
— The Bachelor (@BachelorABC) February 28, 2017
Matthew: Yeah, I didn’t think it was gonna be them shouting at each other like the preview was kind of setting it up to be, but I wasn’t expecting friendly ribbing and actual good advice about how to handle the fantasy suites from an ex?
Andi pointed out that if both people in the fantasy suite want to go for it, then he should feel ok about going for that, but if he really doesn’t feel potential then he probably shouldn’t sleep with them. And that was actually really good advice?
Given my understanding of how Andi’s season ended with Nick lashing out at her for sleeping with him and then not choosing him, it was actually… nice? To have a conversation where he was like “well, now that I’m in your position this makes more sense to me” and she just got to point out a better way to think about sex and exclusivity and stuff?
It felt like an actual moment of growth for Nick. There’s goddamn CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT on this show!
Assuming he doesn’t fuck it up next week.
Ariel: Andi’s advice was quality, and I wonder if maybe that’s when we’ll be saying goodbye to Rachel. It’s not uncommon for number 3 to be the Bachelor/Bachelorette, and then we’ll actually have a reason to wonder who the winner is.
It would be really interesting, though, if Nick is like, “I can’t sleep with you…because you’re going home.” Taking Andi’s advice completely.
I still don’t think there was much of a point to Andi being here, but it was a welcome pointless endeavor in the end, and maybe it really did give them a different kind of closure since Nick is now in the same position as Andi.
And it was fun!
Matthew: I think the only other thing of note from that conversation was when he said that he wasn’t necessarily going to propose to someone at the end of this just because one person was left, which is interesting if they’re just trying to play up his nerves or if he seriously doesn’t want to rush it, which sounds totally fair but might be against the rules?
It popped up again in the preview for next week where we saw Vanessa being like “What do you MEAN you’re ‘not traditional’?” and he was like “I’m just not”. That ain’t gonna click with her big Italian family.
Ariel: Yes! He followed it up by talking about how strongly he felt about each of the women, but it was cool he made it clear he wasn’t going to just propose for the sake of it.
I guess it could be his nerves about being rejected again, but I think it’s mostly because he just doesn’t want to do it for the sake of the show.
Oh yeah, that preview! I wonder what specifically that is about. It could be like about making the bed. “You’re not TRADITIONAL? About making your bed in the morning? WHAT???” You just never know.
Matthew: “I’m just not traditional. I prefer grilled chicken to fried chicken.”
That could cause some tension in a budding relationship.
Ariel: The thrill of anticipation here is surely going to be much more fun than whatever it is they’re discussing.
Okay, so I guess we should talk about Corinne going home, but I promise we won’t have to spend too much time on it.
Ariel: But man, it was actually really sad. It felt like watching a teenager get dumped at prom.
Matthew: That’s the best metaphor you possibly could have come up with, because it simultaneously speaks to how devastated she was and also… how young she is. What immediately struck me was that the first thing she said was an apology “if I’ve ever done anything wrong” (or “to hurt you”, I’m a little fuzzy), and that that was sadder than the actual dumping. She has so much growing up to do. I know that sounds ridiculous from me since I’m only two years older than Corinne and I’ve been fragile as shit when broken up with, but I want to see her learn to love herself first. In Paradise, I guess. So there’s a big question mark.
Ariel: Yes! Oh my gosh it was so sad when she asked that, and Nick is clearly very fond of her, but I think he had to face the music that maybe he does need someone with a bit more life experience etc. I don’t think the age gap was a bad thing in itself, but Corinne still needs to do the things she said in the departing limo ride.
How she was done trying to do the things she thought would please men. This seems like a turning point where she’s going to start just being herself rather than just supporting everything about a boyfriend at the expense of nurturing herself and her goals.
Ariel: I mean, it’s so obvious now. I can’t think of any conversation she and Nick had where it was like what he could bring to the table for her, it was always her just being like, “No, everything is perfect with him, I love him. Now I’m going to go try to cheer him up by wearing nothing under this coat or take off my shirt.” That’s why I never thought those actions were carefree, they seemed much more about pleasing Nick and having his eyes on her than something she wanted to do just because she was going to enjoy it.
YES BIP chants BIP for awhile
Matthew: Oh man so much in here I want to respond to. Our fucking Bachelor posts are the most overwhelming content we do now.
Super agree that the age difference in and of itself wasn’t the problem. The age difference really just highlighted that they’re in such different places in their lives. This episode kicked off with Nick having a conversation with an ex about how he isn’t sure what it’ll take for him to escalate a relationship to a proposal, and Corinne’s sendoff was all her realizing she poured too much energy into making the other person in the relationship happy. These are two people in very different places about how they’re coming to understand what they want.
You’re totally right about how it’s so obvious in retrospect. I feel like I’m better understanding your point last week about Corinne’s actions being carefree vs being a constant, insecure fight for Nick’s attention.
Ariel: I’m so glad you get what I mean! I just really could sense this massive difference in her. Like when she knew she could just hang out with Nick the whole day without competing for his attention, she seemed way more relaxed and happy. Why do I feel this like deep protective feeling for Corinne??? I must see some of myself in her. I feel like she and I should be friends, and I’ll make cheesy pasta for us both and get annoyed with her a lot but also care about her a lot. Can we tweet this at her? Cheesy pasta might get her attention.
Matthew: Here’s what I’m thinking about that: She’s just really young. She had like one serious boyfriend before Nick? She’s still learning SO MUCH about dating and relationships. That’s why it’s easy to relate: that “did I do something wrong” reaction is SO universal.
She’s learning lessons that everyone does in their twenties.
Just, you know, on national television.
Ariel: I don’t think it matters about how many relationships you have before someone, honestly. It’s so about you as a person. Sorry this hits super close to home for me because my husband was never in a serious relationship before me. He dated of course but never anyone he was serious about. Sure, maybe in twenty years he’ll be like, “I DIDN’T HAVE MANY A GIRLFRIEND”, but I don’t know. He’s a very steady person who knows who he is and has a strong sense of self which is the most important.
Matthew: Well, that’s the difference. Corinne doesn’t have a strong sense of self.
Ariel: Exactly! Like if that one relationship had given her that, fine, but clearly it didn’t.
We should start a psychology website… “Hi, we created Bad Books, Good Times. Now we bring you armchair psychology and relationship advice.”
Matthew: Haha, god, I wonder how many of our readers are reading this like “WHERE ARE THE JOKES?”
Don’t worry, y’all. Calendar Girl is coming back this week. There will be jokes.
Ariel: Why don’t we set up a Corinne fan-site. That could be read as a joke (or not????)
Matthew: Ok but back to Corinne, since like only one other thing happened in this episode, so might as well exhaust this topic of conversation. My point isn’t really about quantifying how many relationships it takes until you know what you want (case in point: Nick), but rather that Corinne is very, very at the age where so much energy gets spent worrying about what other people think about you. Which, yeah, obviously I relate to that. It’s the one thing about Corinne that was relatable to me.
Of course, if I can be grumpy ol’ Matthew for a second, I’m still really glad she’s gone? She’s probably gonna be a hoot on BIP and way better suited to that, kinda like the twins and Daniel from last year. I found them obnoxious and vapid as contestants on the main show too, just like Corinne, but they were goofy rays of sunshine once the premise of the show changed to “let’s put a bunch of drunk attractive people on a beach and tell them to play the field”.
Ariel: YOU THOUGHT DANIEL AND THE MAPLE SYRUP BEING POURED ON HIM DURING THE INTRO WAS OBNOXIOUS AND VAPID? Sir, how dare you
Yes, I totally agree about Corinne. I think people mistook that aspect of her personality as villain material…but she wasn’t!
Matthew: In retrospect, I think the villain edit was a little unfair to her. Not entirely unfair because she was quite a bully, but as the season went on we could at least see that it came from a place of insecurity instead of malice.
Ok, so I’m totally ready to move on from Corinne. Let’s talk Raven. For some strange reason, the fantasy suite dates are split over this week and next, but mostly next week, because we only get Raven’s date before it actually hits the fantasy suite itself. Still lots to talk about, though! Raven fought her nerves and told Nick she loved him! She opened up about how she’s only been with one guy before, she never told him she loved him, and he only said he loved her when he was drunk. Nick wore a turtleneck that looked like it was slowly swallowing his head.
Matthew: Oh and most importantly, Raven said that her ex never got her off SO LET’S TALK ABOUT THAT.
Ariel: But she wasn’t a bully…she got bullied so much by the other women (even Kristina was pretty nasty to her at one point.) Just because she took a fucking nap during a rose ceremony when she had a rose or because she took her top off for Nick, and they all attacked her for being young. She lashed out at Taylor after Taylor was pretty terrible to her and talked shit about her constantly to everyone else.
Oh, Raven! I’m glad she got basically her own episode!
It was…so Raven! queue the That’s So Raven theme song
Matthew: Oh, Taylor totally could have gotten the villain edit if she lasted longer on the show. She sucked and had zero self-awareness of how constantly trying to belittle people by saying they had no emotional intelligence was kind of… doing the opposite thing she thought it was. And I have no doubt that she’s only going to come off looking worse when she goes after Corinne again in Women Tell All next week.
But I don’t feel like I’m wrong to think that Corinne brought a lot of toxicity at the beginning of the season. She had no respect for anyone else’s time with Nick, constantly interrupted their conversations, busted out the insults when anyone did the same thing to her and repeatedly afterwards in private one-on-one interviews for the camera. It wasn’t Donald Trump braggadocio bullying; it was Mean Girls Regina George bullying. And she got a lot of shit from the other contestants, possibly ultimately receiving more than she dished out in the first place, but it’s not like she didn’t fuel that fire.
Oh god, we’re never going to get around to Raven. Are we? Corinne broke the blog.
I’m glad we agree about Raven, at least! My other friends I watch the show with don’t like her and I think I have to stop inviting them to my apartment on Monday nights now? Is that an appropriate response?
Ariel: Hahaha damn it, Corinne!
I think it’s weird that those legit complaints were not what people yelled at Corinne about, though. It all came back to napping and not being mature enough for Nick, which is like, go focus on you, guys.
Okay okay RAVEN TIME FOR REAL.
Why don’t your friends like Raven? What’s not to like? They sound like monsters. BANISH THEM!
Matthew: YES RAVEN TIME FOR REAL
Matthew: “What’s not to like” is pretty much Raven in a nutshell. She seems like the most likely winner to me by this point, but I think we’ve established that Nick and I don’t have quite the same tastes (see: Corinne. Again. Goddammit.).
By this point in the season, I’m trying to guess where it’s going based on the editing. I feel like it could be Vanessa solely because the editorial team is doing so much misdirection there. Almost every episode has some tense moment where Vanessa and Nick are seemingly at odds about what they want. In contrast, Raven’s arc right now seems to be entirely self-empowerment: she fought for a number of episodes to work up the nerve to tell him that she loved him, and her dissatisfaction with her sexual history fits right into that again.
Speaking of which, we’ve GOT to talk about this “my last boyfriend never gave me an orgasm” thing that really happened. No wonder the episode ended with Nick’s weird outdoors training montage – dude’s gotta warm up.
Ariel: I still have this feeling its Vanessa! I mean obviously because of the Livestrong bracelet theory.
I really want it to be Raven, though. Or for my Rachel theory to pan out.
I know we have to talk about the Raven never having an orgasm, but I’m not all that shocked by it? I have heard this from many female friends in my lifetime.
I’m excited it was openly spoken about, and I am excited for Raven, but I don’t feel like I have anything groundbreaking to add!
Matthew: Yeah, it was mostly shocking in that they bluntly brought it up on tv rather than that it’s an uncommon thing.
I’m sort of worried to see how next week’s episode handles whatever the aftermath of it is. Because now that that’s out there, pretty much the rest of Raven’s arc now is “but did Nick get you off?”
Ariel: It’s weird, this whole show is a very intimate viewing experience, but I feel like such a creep finding out the answer to that question.
But now we can’t NOT ask that question!
Oh my gosh can you imagine if he didn’t, and then Raven is honest about it to the cameras? That would be great TV.
Matthew: RIGHT? It’s such a natural discussion and I love that it’s in the open and normalizing it, but in doing so we also have this one very specific hurdle now. Because, like, yeah, I CAN imagine if he doesn’t! There is so much weird pressure on Nick now lol
Ariel: It’s making me so uncomfortable! I would talk about this stuff no problem with friends, but this is national television!
The pressure is on for both of them! How could Raven relax enough now to have an orgasm!
I’m anxious for literally everyone involved including America.
Matthew: I guess that’s part of the show: these people have already decided they’re pretty comfortable being this intimate in the spotlight. And I guess if Raven was comfortable enough with dragging her ex on tv like that, the part she’s nervous about next might not be the national conversation about her orgasms.
Wow what a weird sentence I just had to write.
Ok, it’s just come to my attention that someone tracked down Raven’s ex and he’s helpfully added that Raven’s claim that he never gave her an orgasm is “definitely not true”. #masculinitysofragile
Ariel: I feel sad Raven has never had an orgasm on her own. Someone tell that woman to masturbate! She doesn’t need to rely on insecure ex or NICK for this!
Omg “After the episode aired, a GoFundMe account popped up to raise money to buy her a vibrator. ”
I AM NOT ALONE IN MY FEELINGS BUT WHAT A WASTE OF A GOFUNDME
Matthew: BY “WASTE” DO YOU MEAN “THE BEST GOFUNDME I’VE EVER SEEN”???
Ariel: No, but your enthusiasm makes me want to mean that! So I’ll go with a resounding, “Yes!”
Matthew: Oh my god, because of the way she phrased it in the preview clips, my friends and I kept arguing about whether she meant she never had one from sex or never had one at all.
We talked about Raven’s orgasms more than we talked about Corinne leaving the show.
Ariel: I’m relieved by that fact actually. That feels more like us than disagreeing over a random blonde lady even though I care about her.
We Give Out Our Own Roses (For Acting The Most And The Least Like An Adult)
Matthew: It is REALLY slim pickings this week, since this episode was one hour long and pretty much only three scenes happened. I’m not sure Vanessa even said anything this episode, so she’s totally safe from Acting The Least Like An Adult Rose this week.
I think my Acting Most Like An Adult Rose goes to Nick and Andi for having a mature conversation between exes seeking and giving advice about moving forward, and the Acting Least Like An Adult Rose has to go to Raven’s ex for agreeing to do a fucking article just to assert that nuh uh he’s totally good at sex.
Ariel: You’ve gone off the beaten path AGAIN with this rose ceremony! Matthew, you are always breaking all the rules, and I love it.
Ariel: You’re going to hate me, but Corinne gets my Acting Most Like and Adult Rose for genuinely wishing Nick good luck and not having anything negative to say about the other contestants.
I know we mentioned she did that more at the start, but this lends itself to my theory that she was bullied and retaliating. When is the last time she had a bad word about her fellow contestants? But I digress! I expected her to lash out more when she was cut, but she did her best to handle it well and focus on what she could do for herself moving forward when looking for love. She’s growing up!
Least like an adult is hard…Can it be Nick’s sweater for being so attention seeking?
Am I breaking all the rules now?
Matthew: HAHAHA. You gave the maturity rose for avoiding immature behavior, and the immaturity rose to clothes. I guess it makes as much sense at the actual rose ceremony on the show. I’m a fan.
I hope you’re happy. I will never stop thinking about all the little things that went wrong for Corinne that landed her the villain edit instead of the goofball edit. What if Alexis didn’t wear a shark costume and if Corinne interrupted one or two fewer conversations at the cocktail party? Would that have been all it took for me to sit back like, “Oh, Corrine, what a mild-mannered goofball.” We’ll never know.
Ariel: That potential, alternate reality will haunt me!